I'm going to copy and paste in some stuff from a monster thread on the old boards that was inspired by the webcomic equivalent of "knowing when to hold 'em and knowing when to fold 'em."
Just something I've been thinking about lately. It seems like all of the giants of the webcomic world reached a decent size (10,000+ readers) within their first year. So instead of telling newbies to be persistant, should we be telling them to give it a year, then try something else?
If you are in this just for readers and money, I would be one to tell you you shouldn't even wait a year before stopping, but not because I'm Indie Rock Pete. Webcomic success stories are so seldom, you know, and maybe they happened to those guys because they didn't care about it at all, and did what they do primarily for fun and love. But I understand what your question is, and to answer it in a proper way, I get the feeling some people on Keenspot didn't have 10.000 daily visits during their first year (Sortelli, McBean although he's not on Keenspot but Keentoons). Yet they made it, if you ignore the fact that they can't still make a living on the amount of money they make.
I quit my day job and COTC in under 10,000. I also have an extra comic as subscription only. Incidently, COTC's uniques continue to rise after nearly six years. Of course, COTC only updates 3 days a week and if you add the uniques per comic, then it is over 10,000. Go figure.
You gotta love what you do first and just have fun with it and not worry TOO much about turning a buck.. you know? It's all about SUPPLY and DEMAND. -- You'll know things are popular when people start asking you for stickers or shirts of whatever it is you're drawing, and you suddenly go-- "How am I going to afford to make that?" -- then you start thinking numbers.... and you can build slowly. I've seen so many people just come on the scene and say -- HERE'S MY BOOK! BUY BUY BUY!--- and then they're down when no one buys it, or sales and traffic are down. Make something YOU love and Make something people HAVE to talk about.... thats a good thing to keep in mind.
As someone who's observed webcomics a couple of years, I'd say the hypothesis of this thread is inaccurate. The big names everyone flocks to these days when they think of success didn't start out as big as they are now. Most of them have been doing it for 6-7 years. How many of us even knew webcomics existed before 2000? In the short time I've been reading them, I've seen tiny strips get popular and I've seen huge sites dry up. You can't go judging success by all the PVPs and PAs out there. That's like judging American business by all the McDonalds and the Nikes.
William brings up the "unserved audience" point. It is true there are lots of gamer, manga, etc comics out there. How do they survive? They have a subculture that venerates the internet and uses it frequently. The love people have for the subculture spawns more comics about it, and also is set up for sharing info about it.
I beleive CAD actually had around 30,000 readers daily at the one year point. Errant Story has been at around 10,000 readers a day since it started, thanks to Poe's previous comic. I don't know the numbers for Megatokyo, but they got linked from PvP pretty early in their run. It'd be easier to objectively discuss this if everyone had an Extreme Tracker link on their page. I'm almost tempted to log in to Alexa and research a random sampling of comics and whip up some pretty scatter plots and R values, but then I remember how lazy I am. There are a few examples to the contrary, but I still think for the most part it's possible to predict the long-term growth in readership of a webcomic by the growth in its early stages.
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Somewhere the Old Thread Exists
I created this thread when I thought it wouldn't be possible to save the really old threads. As it turns out when we moved to Drupal I was (although the Drupal move created other problems b/c some of the PHPBB2 codes wreck havoc with the theme system here). Anyhow - good thread - some of the comments might be out of order b/c it was pretty mangled, still I did my best to clean it up.
A year later and alongside our recent most read posts this is still interesting stuff to read.
____
Xaviar Xerexes
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Gnaw.
More quotes: (it was a
More quotes: (it was a huuuge thread!)
And last Kurtz chimed in at the end with some advice I think is actually quite helpful - I'd boil it down to being honest with yourself:
Sometimes it takes a year to figure out what you're doing.
Sometimes it takes four. *cough*
I think you can still become popular after X years. A lot of comics fly under the radar for a long time for whatever reasons. I mean, I'm finally getting my first semi-official review that isn't in a blog or forum post, and I've been doing this for awhile.
The comics that got big the quickest were the gamer comics. And as gamer comic creators tend to like other gamer comics, they tend to link each other which encouraged the growth of even more gamer comics. Now, other comics are surging somewhat to fill niches of interest from other readers as webcomics become more popular. So there's always a chance that comics that have been unnoticed for a year or more will start garnering attention.
You also have to keep in mind that there are so many different circles of webcomics, and some comics that we've never heard of are still very popular. as the community comes together more, perhaps the pooled readership will help unearth new gems, or discover gems that have been there all along.
Xerexes, Xerexes - ripping open old wounds!
I think if you started a webcomic a year ago you would have been at the bottom of the list of thousands upon thousands of webcomics, so to even to be more than a tiny blip means you've had to rise above at least oh, I don't know, 3500 comics.
A notable example at the moment is "The Noob", which really catapulted to success in one year under these conditions. My guess is a combination of nous, determination and luck is required for this kind of immediate success.
I wouldn't despair after just one year. One year is just getting started!
"Fenris" wrote: Sometimes
:) Too True.
Yeah - I feel this idea is pretty important to keep in mind. There are SO many webcomics out there. I myself am always stumbling onto comics that are new to me... but have been around for a while and have quite a large readership. Indeed - good things will happen as the community comes together... in part through efforts like Comixpedia.
There is such a thing as a "sinking ship" syndrome. If you spend too many years doing the same old story/characters/comic you are unlikely to improve your skills as much as if you stopped and tried something new. And amazing skills are the closest thing to a sure way to achieve success (ie: there is no sure way).
I am sure that whatever comic I do next is going to be much, much better than my current one. In one year a new comic would be much more likely to achieve some higher level of success. Having said that, I'm not planning on quitting my current comic after the nearly two years of relative unsuccess I've had. Because it's not finished yet and I'm tired of not finishing comics. Not finishing anything ever is the closest thing to a sure way to achieve failure.
Just yesterday I was debating expression vs business in terms of comics and just how, as a creator, you should view your audience/popularity.
I was busting my friend's chops for not updating and he said, "I do it for expression, you do it for business. Leave me alone." (not an exact quote-but close)
I tend to think that mindset of "I'm an artist and can't be troubled with a schedule or marketing strategies" can be very self-destructive. I don't think just because I read books on e-commerce and online marketing that means I'm cranking out Garfield. It's just that I want my artwork to be seen.
I guess my point is, if your comic is unpopular, the first thing you should look at is are you reaching for success, or are you waiting for it to reach you?
Because it can be a LONG-ass wait.
"timdemeter" wrote: I
Okay, but what are we all looking to as a measure of success? Comics being a paying gig? The respect of your peers? A panel at a con? The ability to wang someone you disagree with? Getting a job with a print company like Image or Marvel? All of the above? How much of them are worth persuring, and are you willing to make the sacrifices nessicary to get your comic to as wide of an audience as possible? Or is the shiny glow of Z grade celebrity just too much to pass up? Like being one of those nobodies on a reality show? Or, are you doing it because that's what you do and you want to share your creation with others?
That's really the question, ain't it?
There's no quantifiable answer for it either, and IT should be a personal decision. I think it's safe to assume we'd all like to be sleeping on a big pile of ill-gotten money, but I, at least, find that setting a goal at time is the best way to go. For example, when I started out I wanted an audience. So I did what I needed to to get it. Then I wanted to get the whole operation to the point where it wasn't a money pit and I did that, now I'm working towards getting things in the black. Clearly I'm working towards monetary goals, as my end game would be to quit my job, but I can't think about that day to day or I'll go crazy, because it's just not something that will happen overnight. This same idea applies if you're not after financial success but want to rock the perception of what a comic is to it's very core, or whatever your happy ending may be.
Whatever your measure of success is, I say keep it reasonable, be it page views or dollars or whatever. Then once you achieve THAT goal, you'll be all the more motivated to get going on the next one.
I've seen too many people come out the gate and say "I'm going to draw Spider-Man, or get my strip syndicated, for a living and be a rockstar in the comics world." Then they burn out when that doesn't happen right away.
If your measure of success is too high, then all your little successes will feel like failures and then you're missing half the fun of the ride.
This has been self-esteem corner, by Comixpedia.
I don't think it's complicated at all. I guess it's fun to think about for people who really care about comics, or those who are jealous over other people's successes...
it's very simple though.
Put something out that you love to do. And let people know it exists, maybe advertise it a little-- and keep it regular if you want to try to build an audience. If the people show up, and especially if they come back, it's out of your hands. You can't fabricate that success or carbon copy it.
I'd tell people, hell, if they're sick of doing whatever it is, and they don't have an audience, sure, try something else. Don't force it. But if you like what you're doing, pay no mind to the talk, and just keep putting out the best things you can that make you happy.
How Do You Know You're Working On the Right Project?
I think these are all decent questions one should ask oneself but for me anyways the one-year question is much simpler and purer of motive than all that. How do you know when a project is going nowhere? Granted how to judge that is radically different depending on what your motives are. For some folks that's the story they've got to tell and if it takes them years dangit they're going to tell it. Others however are clearly motivated by other things as well and for many I bet they don't feel like they're telling the one great story they'll ever have to tell. In many of those cases I wonder though if people stop and ask themselves why they're working on the webcomic they are and whether or not it's the best use of their talent. Sometimes I think some creators really should stop and start something new b/c what they're working on isn't clicking and maybe their talent would fit better with a different project. Because so many creators do serialized open-ended projects and work on a finish it and publish it type of schedule I think it's easy for some folks to just keep doing something they fell into when they first thought "hey I could make a webcomic too" And this is also a whole 'nother thread but there are often times when I just think reading a webcomic - you, you're good at art, but man you need someone else to write you a story to tell.
"YIRMUMAH" wrote: I guess
Just out of curiosity, DJ.... Since you're discussing it, which category do you feel you fall under? But you're absolutely correct if you're suggesting that your primary goal should be satisfaction with your work. I quite agree with you.
Then this gets into the problem of creators who do get semi-popular not being able to hang up their boxing gloves when they should because they feel an obligation to their audience... Or they're too addicted to having everyone pay attention to them. Who has the strength to tell their readers, "Thanks, but I'm making shite. Time to stop."? Especially when money starts entering into it.
"TWG" wrote: Who has the
I've actually done this twice now, usually to major protestation. Back in about 2003, Aikida was building some momentum as a gaming comic when I suddenly decided I didn't want to do that anymore, so stopped the comic completely and relaunched with a more dramatic series called Pepperwood. I remember this clearly, because a day or so after I had decided to stop, I was contacted by a magazine who wanted me to do Aikida strips for them in exchange for money, and I actually declined saying that I wasn't interested in doing that anymore.
Pepperwood never caught on because I was inconsistent with it (though it has become sort of a cult classic amongst my readership), so I went back to Aikida a year or so later. That lead up to once again shedding the "gaming/geek" themes and launching into something far different, once again under protest. But, the strip is more popular than it has ever been, so I think I've made the right moves.
My point is, I wasn't entirely happy with the generally unoriginal feel of the old strips. Yes, they were popular to a degree, and successful, but I never felt as if I had a chance to make a mark with them. So yeah, I pretty much admitted I was making crap and moved on, even with money involved. Granted, this is not on the level of say Scott Kurtz deciding he wants to drop PvP in favour of creating some sprawling space opera in daily format. And no, I'm not saying Scott is making crap... I'm just saying, he (or any of us) might decide that it's time to move on and challenge ourselves a bit more.
Myself, I've never had a problem shifting gears. In fact, my flaw might be that I do it somewhat recklessly. We'll see how things are when I reach a level where there would be serious ramifications for changing my projects. Now that I think of it, I can't really think of any semi-popular webcomics/creators that have done this, so you may have a point. The closest example I can come up with was Michael Poe's Exploitation Now, but that was hardly in the higher echelons of popularity. I can think of a few major comics that SHOULD perhaps call it a career, but the fact that they can sit on their fanbase and ride it out almost indefinitely encourages them not to.
So in summary... easy to change projects when you're small... nigh impossible to do it after you're clearing 30k readers a day?
"TWG" wrote:
Dude, I totally LOVE comics of all kinds. Anyone who knows me, knows that's true. I think for me when I was doing comics in newspapers around the country, I was least happy, because the dream of being IN papers and making money, well, it was a ruse... something no one wants to tell you, that they aren't making money in papers. So I walked away from that. Not to mention doing something where you can't express yourself or what you think is REALLY funny. And I have a twisted sense of humor I couldn't express in newspapers. At all.
I did. I think for me when I was doing comics in newspapers around the country, I was least happy, because the dream of being IN papers and making money, well, it was a ruse... something no one wants to tell you, that they aren't making money in papers. So I walked away from that. Not to mention doing something where you can't express yourself or what you think is REALLY funny. And I have a twisted sense of humor I couldn't express in newspapers.
When i started YIRMUMAH, I was happy freelancing doing comic books for other writers. And I started Yirmumah because it's something that makes me laugh and I can express whatever I want there, and it was a great feeling. --- Making money from it, that was just a bonus. Who knew that actually expressing myself and being honest would allow me to NOT have to work for other people. And so, I grew kinda tired the first year there , doing the YIrm stuff on the side online while I felt like I slaved away at night on other people's projects for less money than I was making online with my comic. So I just stopped freelancing all together.
William G, it sounds like you don't care much about your audience? Just from this and other things you've wrote. If something became your livliehod where the fans were paying your bills and letting you do something you loved... and then you woke up one day and said "I don't feel like doing this" -- would you quit? Is there a line where it becomes your job? Of course you'll have days at your job where you don't like to do it--- but that's life. If you find yourself REALLY unhappy day after day, Find another job I suppose. But don't quit on a supportive audience. You don't have to do what they say--- just keep doing what you do. If you suck. Go home. You say something about people who should have hung up the gloves... but who can tell someone else that? It would just be their own opinion. If you're just doing comics to make yourself happy and not have an audience, why publicize it at all or put it where people can have access to it?
I think it gets to a point, if you've built up almost 10,000 people a day reading your comic, you kinda HAVE to think about them. Don't assume that the creators have to give an audience what it wants. I've lost a few readers who get offended by some of the strips I put out-- some choose to bitch publicly about it, and I berate them and tell them they shouldn't read my comic then. DONT read my comic. And everytime I do that even, it seems to bring MORE readers. It boggles me.
Long post - read at your own peril. You've been warned.
We had a thread on the Blanklabel forum about plugging once. I mentioned how there were free ways of getting the word out by being active in the community in forums and blogs. Sure enough, somebody mentioned that that didn't work because they were too busy to post in forums, that sig links were a waste of time, and that the BLC guys should take up the task of spreading traffic to those who don't have any. I should mention that the reply was the only post this person has made and that he never included a link back to his own work he was so desperate to have looked at.
The point I'm trying to make is that people view popularity the wrong way. New comics come along and they set unachievable goals for themselves, then act all disappointed because they didn't get big. A lot of the "bigger" guys still worry about gaining/keeping readers. That's something that's become more obvious to me as I've stuck around. You'll hear creators in podcasts, on panels, in their newsposts, and they'll talk about how everybody thinks they're so big and, if they only give that one magic link back to some underappreciated site, they could share the wealth. If only it really worked that way. It's not easy to get noticed and to stand out these days. If you're a gamer comic starting out today you're not going to instantly be as big as Penny Arcade. Why? We have PA and a million clones like them already. When they started they were the gamer comic out there. They stood out and captured that audience.
People shouldn't expect success instantly. They need to be realistic. That works twofold. If you're honestly trying something new and enjoying the hell out of your comic, then forget what anybody says, you're a success for just getting it out there. But if you have bills to pay and seriously want to make a living at it, then you need to buckle down and reconsider what's not working. It's silly for any other business to blame the consumers for not making them profitable. Some stuff just doesn't catch on and you have to learn to let it go.
I don't believe that anyone owes the rest of the community those magic links that you mentioned. I certainly don't think that Penny-Arcade or PvP or whoever owes me a link because I've been doing this X amount of years, or they're so big, or whatever. I think it's up to you to create your own traffic, though there's nothing wrong with increasing the awareness of your creation... within reason.
Myself, I try to link at least one webcomic with every newspost I do. I don't do it because I feel like I owe people something, I do it because one of my goals this year is to support the webcomic community better than I have in the past. For some webcomics, it's just a case of helping them find the right audience to help them achieve success. If I can aid in that process, all the better.
I had a link from Penny Arcade once and it toally brought me new readers and my steady numbers climbed a little and stayed that way. So, there is some truth to that and I really appreciate ANYONE linking my stuff up if they like it.
If someone were to ask me about links and that, I'd say find similar comics that fit your own style or current readership and go that route. Spending 30 bucks to advertise on Punks and Nerds brought me a ton of extra traffic, and it was a hell of a deal.
All interesting points of views. But if one is trying to make a profitable go at it but the comic just isn't, *ahem*, good enough... then how would the creator know? What criteria, feedback, review, hit status, etc. would be reliable and sufficient to let the creator know? There are plenty of webcomics I see whose creators are fervent and active but their work just doesn't cut it and without some intervention won't ever (I think. In my opinion.)
Take my own cartoon, Line Item Vito, for instance. I started it not expecting anything or wanting anything except the pleasure of creating it. I barely knew anything abou the webcomic community. In the past 14 months it hasn't always been a joy to create, and I've soldiered on out of a personal commitment to stay on schedule. Most times though I'm still having some fun. BUT I'm really ready for my 'toon to be more, well, "Professional" and "Popular" and "Well Known" and "Profitable". I think the toon has plateaued by those measures. Where/How could I possibly get the help and feedback I need to go to that next level? Who would tell me (or any webcomic creator) that their work just isn't good enough? (I had a handful of helpful Weviews at BuzzComix.com, but I believe I need more.)
A cry for help from the wilderness.
Anyway, to bring this back to the thread: "one year" and "popularity" aren't reasonable criteria all by themselves.
Remember:
"Beatuy is in the eye of the beholder"
I think it sometime hard to know if your comics is good or not. For example, I like some comics but lot of people hate the comic I read.
"YIRMUMAH" wrote: Dude, I
That's good to see
Quote:
I see there is a clearly defined line between reader and creator. The current webcomic set up blurs that into an unhealthy co-dependency, and creates a very bad case of entitlement in a segment of the reading audience. But I havent had to worry about that, so it's not important. But since this just a hobby for me and there is no financial responsibility on my part to deliver a product that was paid for, my first priority is creating what I consider to be non-shit. I've always been very upfront about all of this and the people who do decide to read my comic seem to accept it. As I've said many times before, until the relationship moves into one of service provider and customer the only thing a creator owes a reader is a thank you.
Should it ever move beyond the relationship I enjoy now, I'll have to adjust things accordingly.
Like any job, you finish what you've been paid to do then you give notice. There seems to be an unwritten law that once you commit yourself to comics, you're never allowed to leave it without betraying everyone. It's like the mafia in that respect. If a creator is chronicaly unhappy with what he or she is doing, or feel it's a good idea to go out on top, they should tell their readers thanks for everything, but the ride is over. Watterson did it and no one thinks the lesser of him for it. There's no reason why it cant be that way in webcomics as well.
Quote:
It's not an either/or thing. One produces art in the hopes that others will appreciate one's vision. However, the focus should not be on fullfilling the visions of others unless it's a paying gig.
But yeah, there's nothing saying someone should hang up the gloves if they dont see a need to.
Popular is relative to what you think is a big enough audiance to merit continue making your comic. Having an audiance is important. Despite that I still think you need to really love what you're doing, first. You shouldn't make a comic just for your readers, and not for yourself. You need to set personal goals - like wrapping up a graphic novel - or improving your art - ones that you can measure and accomplish realistically. Those victories can be enough to keep you going another year.
The problem, as Kurtz pointed out in the old thread, is that some people keep trying to flog a dead horse, even if said horse never won any races to begin with. Say you yourself love your strip. It's near and dear to you. But you believe you're destined to be a cartoonist and quit your day job. That's fine if you've got a following. But if you get hardly any traffic at all, it's time to rethink and come up with a concept people will want to keep coming back to
"TWG" wrote: If a creator
I'm glad you mentioned Watterson. Though many people have hated his decision to quit, I'm convinced he did it for all the right reasons (whatever his exact reasons were), where many others *cough*FamilyCircus!*cough* should have done the same decades ago.
If you are (like me) working on a comic story with a definite beginning-middle-end I think you do owe it to your readers to finish what you start. Because if I never get to that ending, the entire story is automatically devalued. Either way though, your readers are best served if you can end one project gracefully ("giving notice" is a good analogy) to make way for something better- or at least something you will enjoy making more.
And Eddie- if you feel trapped by your comic, the best thing to do is just play and experiment. The best art (I think) starts out as just fooling around. You never know what you might stumble across.
These are excellent suggestions.
I don't know that I feel trapped by my comic per se. More, I would like to achieve a higher degree of professional success: visual, writing, profitibility, readership. Yet where to turn to improve?
If this were another artistic pursuit -- music, painting, acting -- there are hundreds of schools and mentors and private teachers where one could go for more training.
If this were another business pursuit -- small business, corporate, amway -- there are organizations and consultants to go to (and hire) to help make the company more profitable.
But where does the lonely webcartoonist (or any cartoonist) go?
Maybe it's just a tired Saturday today and I just need a good night's sleep to be re-energized.
Good Lord, I hope there's still a possibility of becoming popular after a year. Monkey Law has been going (off and on) for four years now, and the combination of the off-and-on part and admittedly really poor art the first year or so combined to keep readership really, really low. Lower, in fact, than that of many of the strips whose creators I see complaining in these forums. :)
So I keep plugging away, doing what I can. I've improved the art tenfold, I think... the consistency is also there now... no more month-long hiatuses and missed updates. I'm pouring money into advertising (like the one over on the right -- it's a monkey holding booze and condoms, people! Come on!) and I'm determined to scratch and crawl my way out of the basement.
I tell you, though, the big obstacle -- the thing that really gets you thinking about quitting and trying something else, is not the disappointing numbers in whatever log you look at. Numbers are numbers. They go up, they go down. It's the response of the audience, or lack thereof. With my site the silence is nearly deafening. OK, so I got 80 unique visitors yesterday. Did any of them actually read the damn thing, or just see that it was some black-and-white nonsense involving monkeys and leave? I tell you, I'd gladly take 80 visitors a day if I knew that each one of them really gave a fuck about my work over 30,000 anonymous blips on a log page.
That said, I am making it my goal in the first half of the year to finally edge my comic up past 100 unique visitors a day. And I should say that if everyone who's posted on this topic became a regular reader of Monkey Law, I would achieve that goal. :D
Whoring aside, though, I will address the suggestion that has been bandied around that if what you're trying isn't working out for you, you should think about scrapping it and trying something new. That's all well and good for people with talent, but some of us have only one trick in us and that's it. Please, be more sensitive.
"monkeyangst" wrote: Good
Brad - see I'd think you're a great example of someone who shouldn't quit on their project. I Mean if you didn't want to do it anymore that'd be a different story, but you've got a pretty refined concept and I agree with you - your art has definitely made strides. (I think the writing has always been good) It's not like your work is aimless so much as some of the things you wrote about - consistency, getting better at it. If you really want to juice your numbers, you probably also need to look at hooking into the world of political blogs a bit. Get even a few of the mid-level bloggers to like your stuff and you'd get a pretty healthy supply of new visitors. (Get some of the true uber-bloggers to like you and you'd probably give Penny Arcade a run...)
shinin' your turd
the question is, "how the hell can you be objective about your own work?"
artists of any type are the most delusional people on the planet...
i think returning visitors are the only true way to test whether you have a turd on your hand...
the revelation i'd like to be enlightened with is , what sort of percentage of returning visitors would it require to be considered non fecal matter?
i'm getting a little over 10% of visitors who are counted as returns.
i realize that's not all-star stats, but would you consider that a successful comic?
i would love to hear what other people's stats are...
i don't know if i need to change my shorts, but it's startin' to stink around here...
Hm, something I don't think anyone else mentioned... Should we take into account the archive size after a year? This is really important for complicated, plot based comics. Say, if there are 300 strips in the archive and if a reader doesn't read at least most of them she wouldn't get what strip 301 is about, she'd be less likely to start reading. Now this isn't a problem (as much) for great and/or established comics, or comics that are gag a day, but in the case of plot-heavy stuff it'd be harder for a good (but unpopular) established strip to gain a new following than a newer strip.
That is all in theory... mostly from a reader's point of view. Anyone with actual experience and/or numbers to back it up or refute it?
Wow, monkeyangst...you pretty much reflect exactly the same position I'm in with my comic project. I've been around for four years this past Dec. 31st, but due to my inability to keep a schedule and too many hiatus/delays, our readership is probably ten to fifteen people at best.
But yes, YES, the problem for me is mainly the lack of response. I've gotten grouchy and angsty on the comic's LJ, finally venting how I feel. It helps and some of the readers will comment and at least let me know they're there, just quietly waiting for the next comic story.
Being a slow artist with a case of performance anxiety doesn't help either. :roll:
I know I should advertise, that it should help...but I have a problem with that. I don't feel we have enough comic in the archives to make it worthwhile...it feels too much like a baiting with hollow bait.
Then again, I think we make readers' heads hurt because we use both comic and written stories for our project.
Ah well.
Anyhow, just had to say that you're not the only one to have that experience, monkeyangst.
"monkeyangst" wrote: I
Yep, that's it exactly. Like shouting into deafening silence. BTW, MonkeyLaw is in my OnlineComics.net favorites list and I always read it when there are updates. AND, I've been praising your website design to others and stealing some of it for my own. Keep up the good work. I'm reading!
Re: shinin' your turd
There are several stat counters that can do it. actually, www.statcounter.com does it as well. Shows you returning visitors, visitors who have never been to your site, etc. I have roughly 5000-7000 regular returning people a day and a few thousand more who stumble in each day or check the site out randomly returning.
At the risk of depressing everyone further, does your stats package check for robots such as Google, Yahoo, MSN, or the hundreds of others out there? And/or have you even checked the raw logs to see how many are hitting your sites? If you are going to obsess over stats you should make sure there are actually eyeballs attached to that IP.
One of my favorite quotes is from Thomas Pynchon in Gravity's Rainbow: If you torture the numbers enough they will tell you anything.
I quit worrying about having an active readership. As long as it's being read. Every now and then I get email but conventions are where I actually meet people and talk about the comic. Fortunately there are several in and around Atlanta. It's very cool giving someone a card and/or selling them a mini-comic and having them come back the next day telling you how much they like it. Especially if you get someone who will also tell you what didn't click for them. You know they're not just trying to blow smoke up your ass. I have some friends and family that will tell me their honest opinion about what I'm doing to help keep my ego in check.
I know a lot needs fixin' and I'm constantly working on it. As long as the readers keep growing I figure I'm heading in somewhat the right direction. I'm in no hurry.
Edited to add: I use AWSTATS for my numbers.
Most quality stat counters filter out automatic crawling bots.
I know the built in Dreamhost stats do. Not sure what they're using. Also, Google Analytics is a great free tracker as well... it has all sorts of bells and whistles.
"GregC" wrote: I use
AWSTATS seems to require direct access to the webhost server. Since I am not hosting my own site, is this still a possibility? Or did I miss something in their documentation?
"GregC" wrote: AWSTATS
You can get by with limited access, that's what I have. If you can run Perl scripts and have access to your logs AWSTATS should work. There's also a program called Analog, I think, that uses logs you've downloaded and runs on your PC. Many people like it as well. Google for it and see if that will work.
I freely admit to being a site stats junkie. All of them pie charts, and numbers, and graphs, and the challenge of figuring out what it all means, and how it translates into eyeballs and trends. Cool.
My host doesnt provide Unique IPs but I have noticed a couple of interesting trends in my just over two months old website:
1- From Wednesday through Saturday I'm sending out over 1000 pages a day. Sunday through Tuesday, little over half that.
2- My index page is the most viewed page (duh), but aside from that, the second most requested page IS the latest Bang Barstal update. Which means people are reading it. Again: Duh
3- But, two thirds of my traffic is for my archives. So either It's About Girls is just so good that people read it again and again, or right now I'm still gaining new readers who are deciding if they plan to return or not.
4- I think a number of them may be, because so far, the start of December and January have seen HUGE traffic spikes. Like three times the normal. I'm assuming that people are coming back once a month because Bang updates weekly and they want more than one page to read.
I think I remember Ghastly saying he had something similar going on, but I may be misremembering.
5- Most of my refering traffic comes from Newsarama.com. Followed by both Comixpedias, and then the Dumbrella boards. Newsarama's referers are about 60% of them.
6- The majority of my readers live in the USA and use Road Runner for their internet. A small but noticable minority of them live in Korea and Japan.
7- Overall traffic is increasing slowly in spurts. But as I said, it's only a two month old site and far too early to say anything definite about traffic.