Item: I created a well thought-out and well-written entry for the Comixpedia Wiki, then spent two weeks defending it because you insist that entries all have the same stale, rigid format. I gave in and wrote a short, bland entry just for you.
Item: I entered a suggestion for myself as a creator in the Library, intending to add my comic later (as you've recommended). As a tagline, I put 'Creator and holder of many Indefensible Positions', the last two words being the title of my comic and a link to it.
You accepted the creator entry, but edited it to read, 'I have many indefensible positions'. All style and meanings have been hammered away, the title of the comic is not capitalized, and you've put it in first person so that it now reads as something I've said, when it is something I would never say. I'm trying to present myself with some intelligence and style, and you make me look like an amateur and an idiot.
The hell with Comixpedia. You're so obsessed with bending everyone to your format that you've removed everyone's ability to present themselves honestly. You have a phobia of allowing artists to present themselves in an artistic style. For a site that by its nature should have to be inclusive, you are the snobbiest and most-micromanagerial collective I've seen on the web.
Delete my 'creator' entry. I don't care what you do to the wiki entry or my forum account, but I won't be back outside of this thread.
I'm extremely disappointed. Disappointed in a 'blind rage' sort of way.
[quote:0638346649="xerexes"]Ok - I missed this part on first read. You're completely right about the blind rage part. Since this is the first I've heard from you - A total flame on a message board I'd say yeah you've got some blind rage going there.
I sent in a delete request via the 'suggestion' form. Email, for various reasons, doesn't work well for me as a means of communication. I should have thought to send you a private message. Sorry about that.
I'm having chemical problems lately, so you can dismiss me or my attitude as unbalanced if you like.
Like I said - I don't know the story with your trouble with the wiki. My impression, my hope is that the wiki is more free-wheeling since it inevitably will include a lot more then the library (which is and always has been an edited directory). So again - I'm interested in info on that disput b/c if creators are being overly stifled in creating wiki entries that's a problem.
That dispute was hashed out, civilly, on this forum thread and on the discussion page for my wiki entry. That dispute is over; I caved in, they won. The Library entry fiasco on top of that old dispute was 'just another thing' that caused my self-discipline to slip.
As to what your entry got edited down to - in retrospect I didn't follow my own guidelines really - I should have deleted all of it.
That wouldn't have bothered me as much. What bothered me was putting it into first person (as it is *not* something I'd say; considering my comic, saying that could open me to legal liability ;) ) and that it was grammatically incorrect (here I'm talking about the lack of capitalization). You really made me look like an idiot, and that's unacceptable. Then seeing it on your front page made me lose it.
Despite my attitude, there's no harsh feelings, Xerexes. But you really should reconsider your site's policy of editing everything and anything contributed to it. I have an advertising budget and I was considering Comixpedia, but I've decided against it. Why would I want to advertise on a site where I would apparently have no control over how I am presented?
That wouldn't have bothered me as much. What bothered me was putting it into first person (as it is *not* something I'd say; considering my comic, saying that could open me to legal liability ;) ) and that it was grammatically incorrect (here I'm talking about the lack of capitalization). You really made me look like an idiot, and that's unacceptable. Then seeing it on your front page made me lose it.Despite my attitude, there's no harsh feelings, Xerexes. But you really should reconsider your site's policy of editing everything and anything contributed to it. I have an advertising budget and I was considering Comixpedia, but I've decided against it. Why would I want to advertise on a site where I would apparently have no control over how I am presented?
No hard feelings here either. Really after about 10,000 or so emails telling me how much I suck for not fully appreciating certain gamer comics (back in '04) I have an amazingly thick skin.
I don't want to keep an argument going here so where it's obvious I would disagree with what you said, well I disagree. I hope you'll swing by again but if not at least you left on better terms then this morning.
Wikis are not, generally, places for authors to post their own thoughts/knowledge/whatnot about the comic; you have your own webspace for that.
[quote:9d8352fc2a="nifboy"]Wikis are not, generally, places for authors to post their own thoughts/knowledge/whatnot about the comic; you have your own webspace for that.
Well, no, I disagree with that kind of broad statement and I've said so consistently on the mail list and other venue for discussion of wiki policy. It's entirely possible that we would agree if we sat down to discuss but I think there has to be flexibility there.
Why? Well for starters anyone who creates and any webcomic can have an entry on comixpedia.org. Much different then the "importance" threshold they have at wikipedia. So many entries the best person to put in an entry is the creator. That should be encouraged.
That doesn't mean that everything a creator puts in the entry has to stay - obviously from the get-go the wiki is a community edited wiki. But it also means that there is no suspect status for an entry b/c the creator or a fan wrote it initially (or edited/added to it later).
Well, I guess I should put it like this: An author should have no more control over his/her own article than any other editor. When the author claims ownership to his own article ("I'm remus and I'm going to tell you..."), that's not a wiki article, it's just the author's own message. The message would be just as well if not better on the author's own webspace.
[quote:c7c40659ae="xerexes"]No hard feelings here either.
Thanks for your professionalism, Xerexes.
I hate cutting off my nose to spite my face, and yet I tend to do it whenever I have a bad day. If I'm welcome around here I'll continue to lurk about. But your policies do bother me -- just let that be stated.
For now, though, I need to vanish until I feel better.
[quote:1a4151218b="nifboy"]When the author claims ownership to his own article ("I'm remus and I'm going to tell you..."), that's not a wiki article, it's just the author's own message. The message would be just as well if not better on the author's own webspace.
That's why a wiki-savvy author puts his thoughts in a clearly marked subsection of the article titled 'Colloquial Description', as I did. :) You can use all the other subsections to make a rigidly formatted description of the comic, but there should be at least one place where the author can communicate to potential readers in his own voice. IMHO.
A couple things in reply to this thread, emails, etc.
1. The wiki is a new baby still. It is a community-edited document by definition though. That means entries are subject to editing by the community according to comixpedia.org's evolving set of policies (which btw are voted on by the community of users, subject to my veto to keep my ass from getting sued).
I don't think we're going to move away from that basic premise so if that's something we disagree over, let's just agree to disagree. If others feel strongly about another approach to directories/wikis/etc email me to talk about (or start another thread). I am loathe to get involved in more projects but I'm chock full of helpful advice on how to start/run one and I have some spare server space. Let's talk :)
I would love in fact to focus more on the wiki but other Comixpedia priorities keep popping up. HOWEVER, don't let things fester - email me or post a forum post about a specific issue/ complaint whatever and we'll deal with it.
2. Based on Remus' valid complaint, I realize I need to fix how creator updates are handled. The problem is in the ambiguous nature of the Creator update - I need to make it clear when it's claimed and coming from the creator and when it's not claimed. Or something. In any event, I need to look at it.
I have to add, I am also frustrated with the Library right now b/c it's too complicated for you (creators) to use and for me to administer. So work on it has slowed while I've been investigating other more promising stuff for the future of Comixpedia.
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Woah - Email me a specific issue if you need a 2nd opinion
The wiki is a totally open source community driven thing. I'll admit I don't have much - in fact any time for it right now. Comixpedia does not pay anyones bills so it only gets the free time people have.
There are several enthusiastic and hard working folks who have done much of the work on the site. They are in fact AWESOME for doing the work. But they're not perfect. No one is.
Whatever your complaints are - anyone's complaints, if you have a problem with your interaction with the site you have to email me if you want a second opinion. I don't have time to read every page on the wiki (frankly much of it at all this month).
I encourage you to email me specifically what is the problem and let me see if we can work something out.
Comixpedia Does Its Best To Respond To Requests.
[quote:3b172754cb="RemusShepherd"]IItem: I entered a suggestion for myself as a creator in the Library, intending to add my comic later (as you've recommended). As a tagline, I put 'Creator and holder of many Indefensible Positions', the last two words being the title of my comic and a link to it.
You accepted the creator entry, but edited it to read, 'I have many indefensible positions'. All style and meanings have been hammered away, the title of the comic is not capitalized, and you've put it in first person so that it now reads as something I've said, when it is something I would never say. I'm trying to present myself with some intelligence and style, and you make me look like an amateur and an idiot.
I'm extremely disappointed. Disappointed in a 'blind rage' sort of way.
Ok - I missed this part on first read. You're completely right about the blind rage part. Since this is the first I've heard from you - A total flame on a message board I'd say yeah you've got some blind rage going there.
I'll still apologize although it'd be a more enthusiastic apology if you had contacted me or anyone at Comixpedia with a civil statement expressing your objection. We're just people here and we do our best. I'll delete your bio/update line since you object to it.
Like I said - I don't know the story with your trouble with the wiki. My impression, my hope is that the wiki is more free-wheeling since it inevitably will include a lot more then the library (which is and always has been an edited directory). So again - I'm interested in info on that disput b/c if creators are being overly stifled in creating wiki entries that's a problem.
But as to the library, the entries will get edited b/c the library is an edited directory. Bios need to actually be bios about the creator. Not about the webcomic(s) or really about nothing at all (as some stream-of-conscious suggestions I get are). I don't apologize for streamlining the bios or not using anything suggested at all b/c I want the library to be a really efficient way to find out about people. The wiki is the place for extended information - subjective information if you will.
As to what your entry got edited down to - in retrospect I didn't follow my own guidelines really - I should have deleted all of it. It wasn't informative other than to name the webcomic you did. I'm looking for things like birthplace, current location, way you make a living, awards, education, if appropriate things like artistic influences, accomplishments. Given the tone of your original suggestion though (and frankly my desire to make something of many suggestions) I guess at the time I didn't think it would bother you. My mistake and one I would have quickly fixed as soon as you asked.
You've asked so I'll change it now.